An Obama presidency would change the political landscape by leaps and bounds as you’ve said. That needs to happen. The same boot in the pants that Johnnie Cochran and the OJ trial gave to the justice system needs to happen to the political system. That change is long overdue.

I really don’t think experience has a lot to do with it, Bush had plenty of experience and was unable to bring it to the White House in a workable manner. With so many advisers and a competent cabinet, I think Obama who is highly intelligent can make sound, informed decisions. I know Hillary is a genius and I know she will create more programs for inner city kids to level the playing field. Every since college she has really done a lot for the disadvantage.

The good thing about Obama is that his family is from Kenya. Currently, Kenya is suffering a lot, and are on the edge of civil war. I do think if elected, he will be the first President to place Africa as a priority instead of an after thought.

Barack is Barack, he doesn’t pretend to be more black when he gets around black people, and he doesn’t over articulate around whites. I like Hillary Clinton, but her speech pattern and language changes quite a bit when she gets around black people. I do not like being patronized. But, when it comes down to it, I’m afraid Hillary just may have the best interest of blacks in mind compared to Barack.

Lastly, I think you are born a leader and some people have that quality despite their political leadership experience. Bush was a manager, he managed this country into the ground. He defended people that failed him, and he was reluctant to change his vision when it was obvious that it wasn’t working. I will say he was decisive.

It can be if it causes one to vote without thinking. In that case we end up voting against our own interest, and chasing our tail. Can you say, Kwame Kilpatrick?

“An Obama presidency would change the political landscape”

Change it to what is the question. For every action there’s an opposite and equal reaction. If you look at the good changes and ignore the bad changes, then you’re not looking at the whole forest.

My bottom line is though, we need to be prepared for what may come, which means we need to be thinking about it and talking about it.

Thanks for taking the time to discuss it.

You’ve really got to view everything going on with a probing analytical eye, and not take it just on the surface.

However, if he wins, I don’t believe he will be any worse for blacks than anybody else would be.

For instance, why in the year 2007, did we have to have a President sign a bill permitting us the right to vote? If we, as Black people are U.S. citizens, then whey must we seek a Presidential signature giving us the right to vote? Why has there not been a law passed to say that Black Americans are U.S. citizens? Why has the Black community not asked the candidates about higher mortgage rates, racial profiling, higher Black incarceration rates, the unjust justice system, substandard educational systems and inadequate housing? Are these not our concerns? Why are we afraid to ask the questions?

I especially expect Obama to address some of these issues, but I do not just hold him accountable, I hold all of the candidates accountable. If they are asking for our votes, we definitely need to do some soul searching and more importantly, ask the hard questions. As a voter, I really want to know what is this candidate going to do for me. What is going to be done to make my and those that belong to me, lives better. I have not heard any of the candidates address these issues. I agree with you, Yobachi, I would not expect Obama to come out like Conye West and bluntly state this country does not care about Black people, however I do expect him as a Black man to address some of the issues that I am sure he has encountered on these shores of America and explain how he is going to make them better. For all of the other candidates, I expect the same thing. We need to remember how many times, we have actually had promises made, only to see them fall at the waistside, once the person is in office.

What I know is that racism is a state of mind and heart. Having a Black President is not going to change this attitude in people. However, laws will encourage racists to abide by the law, no matter what they feel, because most people do not want to go to jail. We are still waiting for law regarding the Jena Six. That, too had not been addressed. The poor affected by Katrina has not been addressed. I think we, as a Black community cannot get caught up in the mesmerising situation of seeing one of us in the oval office without saying to ourselves, we want to know what are you going to do to make our situation better. We need to ask this of all of the candidates. I think Black folk are letting all of the candidates off just a little too damn easy.

I’m not sure if you read through much of the post, but my argument is not that he himself would be any worse for Black people; but that the shift in the landscape from a Black person being elected president at this juncture would cause unintended and harmful consequences; because of how white people would mis-frame the issue and use it to forward their racism status quo agenda.

Further, I noted that, while again I don’t think he’ll be any worse for black people; but if he’s down playing race on the campaign trail, we can’t expect that he’ll be greatly better for black people either, when he would not be a dictator to begin with and the system will still be a racist even with him in an office.

Yep, is that opperating off of sentimentality and emotion.

And we have had many promises made to us and broken. We can ill afford just keep rolling over and being pimped by the dems.

I’m glad you recognize that one man in an office won’t change the system. Now we need to think about what really can be done to re-engineer the institutions of society.

For example “Simply having individual Black people get positions is no longer nearly good enough…”

Take your logic to it’s natural extension and you must realize that it should never have been enough. That in fact, Black peoples’ participation in the political process has perhaps had some small effect on some small minority of people, but as a vehicle for social change, it has been a dismal failure. Some folks say all politics is local. Well then why even in cities with majority Black populations and majority Black elected officials do we have the highest incidence of the worst there is to see in Black people’s condition in this country? Yet we still parade the political process as “the way”. The foundational logic of most proponents of the political process is that it is all we have. I say if all you have is a losing proposition, then what do you really have, other than a reason to do something different?

I know you understand this from your statement, “We need fundamental change, not just Negroes in high places.” Those of us who truly advocate for change have to begin to realize that sometime a thing is so broken that it cannot be fixed. Sometimes it’s necessary to start over, to do something different, to refuse to accept that the messed up situation you are in is the simply the way things are.

And consider this ststement, “If Barack down plays race to gain power, he will down play race to maintain power.”

Again, take your logic to it’s natural conclusion. Every politician’s main motivation is getting re-elected. Not only will Barak downplay race, he will be forced to pander to the same economic power and special interest that is currently in the process of running this country and the rest of the world into the ground. He is taking their money right now, just like every other candidate. He has to to even have a chance at winning. No matter who wins, the money power has not changed hands and the policy will remain the same. The most we are likely to see are minor “victories” that do little or nothing to change the status quo. Like you, I have had more than enough of superficial placebo type progress. I don’t need to drink from the same water fountain, I need the power to control my own destiny so I don’t have to ask for somebody else’s water. Nothing but a fundamental change in how we do things is ever going to address this fundamental flaw in our supposedly democratic system.

“The fact that we feel the need to get permission from white people to support our brother sets a great precedent.”

One this one point I wish to propose an alternative theory. Perhaps it’s not so much that Blacks feel they need white folks permission to support Obama. I do agree that most Black folks probably didn’t feel like Barak really had a chance to win. But I think this phenomena of us perhaps now giving more support to Barak speaks more to a fundamental understanding that Black folks in this country have. Simply put, we know, even those of us who pretend that things have changed for the better, we all know that if white America doesn’t want it to happen, then it simply will not happen. White America didn’t really want to give us our civil rights in the 60’s. But they got sick and tired of seeing these Black folks in the streets protesting and all the turmoil it was causing and they realized that it wouldn’t make that much of a difference in the big scheme of things to allow us a semblance of equality in this country. White America didn’t want to free the slaves during the civil War. The northern money interests needed to remedy an unfair trade advantage being exercised by their Southern counterparts. Black freedom was incidental to that agenda.

It’s a far different time now than either of those watershed moments in our history. I don’t know if a movement directed specifically at the Black agenda can be sustained in this brave new world. I’m not sure if that’s the right tactic anyway. What I do know is if white America decides they can deal with a Black president, then one will win. It may be Barak, this time or the next, or it may be the next socially acceptable “magic negro”. If white America doesn’t want it to happen, there isn’t a blessed thing Black folks can do about it. And we all KNOW this in our heart of hearts. The simple election and elevation of any one of us will never work to change that. Something else will have to be the solution.

We are not being bamboozled again. As a group, we haven’t gotten past the some old bamboozling that has kept us spinning our wheels and still sliding backward for the past 40 years. Barak’s elevation won’t be bad for Black people in any new sense. It will just continue the same old bad line of thinking that we are making progress when really, as a group and as a society, we are not.

“Like you, I have had more than enough of superficial placebo type progress.”

I like that phrase, I’ll have to remember it.

As far as the permission to vote for obama thing, sure we can rephrase it the way you put it and I think we’re both accurate in a sense. So maybe it wasn’t directly asking permission; but it’s emblematic of waiting around for white people to decide our destiny for us, instead of being proactive and taking our own bull by the horns.

“The northern money interests needed to remedy an unfair trade advantage being exercised by their Southern counterparts. Black freedom was incidental to that agenda.”

I really wish Black people would learn and understand this. I’ve been preaching it so hardily for years. And it is parallel to the point of this post. What’s really white people’s agenda? Just because the black folk get some benefit, it doesn’t mean there aren’t drawbacks. It doesn’t mean that this is the day of arrival.

“We are not being bamboozled again. As a group, we haven’t gotten past the some old bamboozling that has kept us spinning our wheels and still sliding backward for the past 40 years.”

This is true. I’ve been saying the last few months that the Jena 6 resistance would not be the start of a new movement; because we never finished the old.

“While we’re being perpetually overly sentimental, our enemies are being perpetually strategic. We’re being emotional and they’re being exacting.”

Exactly right! I’m going to link to your post right now!

” Who should sacrifice their success for the betterment of the community?”

I don’t think you quite understood my perspectivve, because I’m not saying he shouldn’t try to become president if he wants. As a matter of fact, though I did not say so in this particular post, if I had to vote today, I’m pretty sure I’d vote him.

I’m not concerned with Obama’s personal success one way or the other. We’ve had plenty of successful black individuals since “we overcame” and got to sit at the lunch counter with whitey; it has not, though, greatly impacted the uplift of our whole. I’m talking about dealing with changes in the socio-political landscape, and not again thinking that we overcame just because somebody got a position.

I’m with you about playing offense, I just disagree that the trade off of getting an office that won’t neccessarily change anything is such a victory. That’s why we haven’t been playing offense the last 40 years; you don’t fight a cause that you don’t think exist.

I wish somebody would call me a sellout.

I don’t believe in sheepism, group think, getting mystified by individuals, and thinking we’ve arrived or overcome because we get thrown a bone.

You may not have made it to the end, and that’s fine, it’s a long piece; but I did say “With all above said, on the counter balance side…we must acknowledge the positive in a possible win. An Obama presidency can provide a great source of inspiration for many a Black youth to strive.”

Nonetheless that factor by itself does not neccessarily out wiegh ever other consideration. Nor does it particularly lead to “casting off of the slave mentality”.

And if you knew anything about Malcolm X you’d know he’d be the biggest critic of thinking Black people are really getting power by having white people give them a political position. Read, or watch online “The Ballot or Bullet” speech. Malcolm chides black folk for their “dumb vote” for their “ignorant vote”.

We’ve got to have more than surface analysis. This is something that needs to be hashed out with all depth and Overtanding.

It’s time to move away from conventional thinking that has undoubtably failed us for 40 years.

My contention is not that he would not vote for a Black man, as I’ve not made such a contention myself. I said he would be critical, ala take a critical assessment of the situation as he did with everything and would not simply vote for the guy just cause. If I’m correct, Malcom X wasn’t even a voter. Either way though, I guarantee Obama would not get his support without critical analysis.

Further, one has to understand the applied principl.e Malcolm always had a principle underlining what he spoke, so his words don’t just apply to one thing in particular, even though he may have been addressing something specific at the moment. And he indeed spoke of, in the Ballot or the Bullet, as well as else where, of being weary of the Black leaders whites pick for us. Not to mention pointing out the whole Democrat/Republican “con game”; which is another point I make in the piece, that the con game doesn’t go away just because a brotha gets the big chairs. Therefore, lets factor this in to our expectations.

He also made issue to be suspicious of anything under girded by white powers, with a Black face on it. That’s why he refereed to the March on Washington as the “Farce On Washington”. As far as he was concerned, it was white financed and ultimately planned, to effect their own benefit; specifically the issue I’m raising here for investigation.

Even MLK in his last 3 years had moved beyond paltry jesters of inclusion and was focused on intrinsic fundamental change. That remains my focus as well.

Our primary focuses are different, that’s fine. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t all give attention to the full array of issues at hand. That’s all I ask for here. I’ve told no one not to vote for Barack. I voted for him last week.

I’ve repudiated that stupid notion from day one.

But, I have no interest in arguing with you about internal Black politics. You have no say. You inject your interest, and I’m sure care nothing of Black folks interest.

I’m not here to make you hopeful. The name of this blog is “BLACK Perspective”, not “Make a white guy hopeful Perspective”.

Because that’s a much too simplistic understaning of my position. Here’s a better question, why would white people vote for Sharpton when they don’t like him?

Obama presents himself in a way that is maladable to white people. That’s a prerequisit before the rest applies. Sharpton is “too Black” in their eyes, were as Obama is “our kind of Black guy, if just other Blacks were like him”.

It’s a complete dynamic, not just one factor or the other.

As for the rest of your tripe, it’s just that, and not worth my time to respond to.

ImBlackToo, I couldn’t read past the second sentence without internally erupting into laughter.